Reports Must Be Factual & Accurate, not Emotional!

Feedback from travelers recently returned from Turkey: what's good, what's bad, what they found

Moderator: sinan

turkeytom
Site Admin
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:20 pm
How many stars? **: 0
Location: Boston & Istanbul
Contact:

Unwanted Attention

Post by turkeytom » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:56 am

The question asked to me was not about unwanted attention, but about a hotel manager sleeping with guests.

Unwanted attention is objectionable, of course, and the person causing the problem should lay off when told to.

If the question is, "Should people complain about unwanted attention," of course the answer is "yes."

As for "the demographic," I guess you mean women and not men. Being a man, I'm afraid that at times in the past I have probably been the instigator of unwanted attention. I don't believe I've ever caused harassment (I'm too shy), but I have looked too obviously and longingly at women I found attractive—but, then, it was long looks that led to my meeting my very first girlfriend in high school (Jane, of course), so perhaps that set me up for later too-soulful gazes (I was always terrible with pick-up lines)....

Actually, while writing a guidebook to a North African country (which shall remain nameless) I did receive unwanted attention...from local men. Unlike in the US where a "No thanks" is enough to get one off the hook, in North Africa there was a pesky persistence about it.

Yes, it is annoying, and no, I didn't like it.

But I liked just about everything else about the country, so the annoyance seemed minor.

Tom Brosnahan


Much2CnDeu
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:29 pm
How many stars? **: 0
Location: San Francisco

Post by Much2CnDeu » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:03 am

I didn't elaborate in the initial post. I wanted to first see what the response would be. Maybe I should entitle the post:

HOTEL _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Management provides a wide range of accommodation. Bring Condoms If You're Interested. Bring Husband/Boyfriend If You're Not.

So, Tom - what's the verdict? I understand that you don't see the relevance or value. First time (women) travelers to Turkey would. Is it a "yes" or a "no." I'll abide by your decision.

Al
TTP Expert
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:03 am
How many stars? **: 0
Location: Washington State USA

Post by Al » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:17 am

I think Tom makes a valid point in his response.

If you were harassed, propositioned, or "come on to" by someone on a hotel staff and the management turned a blind eye, I think that is a helpful thing to report.

If the service of the hotel was compromised because of someone's indiscretion (the desk was empty because the night manager was in a guest's room), that would probably be fair game too.

If two consenting adults decided to spend the night together, I guess that is their concern (and, perhaps, that of their spouses if they have any). I don't know that I'd care to be around that, but I'm not sure I think it's grounds to flame an otherwise adequate hotel.

turkeytom
Site Admin
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:20 pm
How many stars? **: 0
Location: Boston & Istanbul
Contact:

Relevance or Value

Post by turkeytom » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:31 pm

So, Tom - what's the verdict? I understand that you don't see the relevance or value. First time (women) travelers to Turkey would. Is it a "yes" or a "no." I'll abide by your decision.
Relevance or value of WHAT? Your first message asked:
If a hotel manager sleeps with hotel guests (in the hotel) and the hotel owner gives tacit permission by ignoring it - how does one disclose this information accurately and fairly?
I answered that question in my earlier message. If you have another question, please ask it and I will do my best to answer it...but you haven't asked.

If what you're trying to ask is: "If female guests at a hotel are propositioned by a member of the staff, should they complain, report it and/or warn others?" the answer is "YES." But you never asked that.

Pardon me, but I'm a writer. I choose my words carefully. I read only what others have written, not what they meant to write but didn't. I can't read minds.

Please do not impute to me opinions which I do not hold. ("I understand that you don't see the relevance or value.")

Tom Brosnahan

steve
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 3:09 pm
How many stars? **: 0
Location: Surrey, UK

Post by steve » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:08 pm

With reference to the earlier reply to my posting. This seemed to suggest that what I had said was a 'man's' response and implied that perhaps men are keen to get laid on holiday. What I posted about tourists going abroad for the whole sun, sea and sex experience actually referred to women! There are plenty of female travellers (and I am referring only to what I know from a UK-perspective) that like nothing more than to go to a Mediterranean resort and shag a waiter. They can be pretty ruthless predators and see a bunk-up with the bloke behind the bar as very much part-and-parcel of the whole package experience.

turkeytom
Site Admin
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:20 pm
How many stars? **: 0
Location: Boston & Istanbul
Contact:

Culture Clash

Post by turkeytom » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:22 pm

This, of course, exacerbates the "unwanted attention" problem: some foreign visitors are looking for sex, most are not, but local Romeos, ever hopeful (and fully confident in their irresistibility), will hit on everyone indiscriminately.

Just by the law of averages, by doing this they're likely to score, so the behavior is reinforced, alas.

This seems to happen in all sun-and-fun destinations, including most if not all Mediterranean countries, Mexico and the Caribbean, Thailand, Bali...anywhere with lots of tourists.

Local men would not think of hitting on local women, because both know the culture and abide by its rules or suffer the consequences. But foreigners are different. There's no apparent shared culture between a foreigner and a local, so the rules seem to have been relaxed.

The solution should be training of tourism personnel in proper behavior for the good of the guest. But where sex is involved, there are likely to be lapses, that's for sure.

Tom Brosnahan

albyn
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:33 pm

Re: Reports Must Be Factual & Accurate, not Emotional!

Post by albyn » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:05 pm

You are two days into you holiday in Turkey when.....Just a query..........If you're wife's drink is spiked by a leering taxi driver who then tries to lure her into his cab and in resisting she hits his cab causing minimal damage. He then calls the police, who miraculously appear in seconds and beat her up. You are then both taken to the "police station" Your terrified wife is then beaten up again and threatened with gang rape. You then get up to protect your wife, are knocked to the ground and beaten to a pulp yourself. You then tell the Police to f***ing leave you alone and having deprived both of you of food, water and sleep, march both of you to the local "magistrates". This person tells you to pay costs to the taxi driver (who brought this on himself). She also fines you for swearing at a police officer (after both you and your wife have been beaten up and she been threatened with gang rape).

How do you explain this and how should we proceed?

turkeytom
Site Admin
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:20 pm
How many stars? **: 0
Location: Boston & Istanbul
Contact:

Re: Reports Must Be Factual & Accurate, not Emotional!

Post by turkeytom » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:27 pm

How do you explain this and how should we proceed?
It's not a matter of explanation, it's a matter of documenting what happened to seek relief (seeing that wrong-doing is punished, perhaps receiving compensation).

I'd record facts about the event: date, time, place, witnesses, circumstances (how is it that a taxi driver was involved with the wife's drinks and in a position to spike one? What is the evidence that the drink was spiked? Who called the police, when did they arrive, what did they do, and why were they told to "f***ing leave you alone" (not usually helpful, but the description of events that you give is brief.)

Do you have, or can you get, the name and address of the local magistrate? In my experience, malefactors usually don't want others involved in their incidents. Why do you think those involved went to a magistrate?

What, if anything, did the wife say that might be construed as swearing at a police officer? What were the nature of the injuries? What happened that you suspected there might be gang rape?

When the facts are recorded, I would give them to those involved with your trip (hotel, tour company), and communicate them to the Ministry of Tourism and your diplomatic representative (consulate), which might be able to advise of other procedures you might take. Here's more:

http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/tourop/complain.html

Nothing can "correct" a bad travel experience, but you can, if you wish, take actions that might identify the problem to those who would like to eliminate it, punish some of the malefactors, and save future travelers from similar bad experiences.

Tom Brosnahan


Post Reply